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  1. #291
    Senior Member LuvNot's Avatar
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    I was having issues getting the front forks realigned, so today after work, Mom came over and helped.

    fixing the triple tree.jpg

    First, I have to say once more, My Mom Rocks! She brought one of those uber long pry bars, a rubber headed mallet, and a bunch of zip ties! I didn't get any pictures of the actual procedure, but we basically worked together to leverage the upper triple tree back into alignment. It took four or five tries using different methods, but in the end, we got it pretty dang close.

    The last image up there is a little misleading because the handlebars are bent. But from my point of view, when I looked past the bars, the triple tree appeared to to align pretty well with the wheel. Nothing to do now but button it back up and take it for a trial spin.

    Before she left, Mom helped re-run some wires and tidy them up with the zip ties. We discussed ways of enclosing the rats nest of wires behind the headlight and think an otter box might work if mounted correctly. The space is 5T x 7W x 3D behind the headlight. If I use the two holes that the old headlight bracket mounted to, I could theoretically suspend the box in that space behind the headlight, protecting the wires and keeping them out of the pinch point at the steering stops. If I have time, I'll tackle that tomorrow after work.
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  2. #292
    Senior Member LuvNot's Avatar
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    Didn't find an otter box the right size in the stores, but did find a couple of those stacker boxes used to sort office supplies and they fit pretty well. They are smaller than I originally wanted, but they do fit. So I made a backer board and started planning how to set them into the space. It fits perfectly in the space between the forks. Once the backer board is secured, I'll start working through the best method to enclose the wires. I would like to just cut a hole and feed the wires into the top and bottom, then join them in the box. But I'll probably end up cutting a U channel in the top and bottom of the boxes and let the lids maintain the box shape.

    wire boxes 1.jpg Wire Boxes 2.jpg Wire Boxes 3.jpg Wire Boxes 4.jpg

    Ungh, hope I can finish this up for the weekend. I want to ride!
    Ken and TopPredator like this.
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  3. #293
    Senior Member LuvNot's Avatar
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    You know what's worse that putting your bike back together and having several "extra" bolts laying around?

    Putting your electronics back together hand having a couple of leads without matching plugs...

    Good news is, I have a "proof of concept" for a wiring box that seems to work pretty well.

    front wire box 1.jpg

    You'll notice it's a different box than the one I started with - that one was just too limiting because it was two separate boxes. This one is one compartment, which worked out MUCH better at containing all the wires and connectors.

    front wire box 2.jpg

    I tried to get it all finished tonight so I could ride it tomorrow, but ran out of light.

    20170518_201806_resized.jpg

    So I broke out the head lamp I bought for the Green Ridge event and finished up as much as I could, but then noticed the miss-matched leads and... So I called it a night and will have to finish it up this weekend.

    I think now that I understand how best to fit this in the space, I might try to 3D print a box that fits perfectly between the forks. It will be nice to be able to fit things a bit neater into the space and protect the connections from the weather better than that open rubber boot. I know the boot works, but if this can work a little better, why not?
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  5. #294
    Senior Member Xracer's Avatar
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    I can now see the book being a chapter or two longer.
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  6. #295
    Senior Member LuvNot's Avatar
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    Chapter 3 - the box saga continues... Actually, it's more like chapter 4, but I'm skipping ahead.

    This weekend I spent from 7am until 8pm Saturday and 7am to 6:60pm working on the bike. Why? Building boxes. Several times. Over and Over Again. Who knew a box could be so complex?

    The first version was made from Kydex. That was the one I wanted to work because it was lightweight, would provide great water protection, and wouldn't be bothered by sunlight or extreme temperatures. It looked good too. Unfortunately, I couldn't find a glue that would hold up to the stress of the wires running through it.

    So it was back to the drawing board. Finally settled on some 1/4" craft wood from the local hardware store. Not as bulletproof as plastic, but easier to work with and I had the glue and staples to keep it together. And it worked pretty well. Between the kydex and the wood, I've figured out an optimal configuration of openings for the wires, turn signals and round head light.

    One problem I still have is those 2 empty wiring sockets. Have no idea what they go to. All the important electronic bits work: ignition cuts the bike on, the horn honks, the headlight has both high and low beams, both left and right turn signals blink, and the brake light for both hand and foot work... I'm stymied as to what went in them.
    20170520_180847_resized.jpg

    Another problem is the forks are definitely bent. I thought Mom and I got it all straightened out, but after a test ride this evening, I can tell it's still off. Not nearly as much as it WAS, but definitely off. So, I'm going to steal Charlotte's forks until I can save the money to buy new ones.

    And finally, unless there is an easy way to stiffen the V-Star shock, Charlotte will also be donating hers until I can get a replacement. <~sigh~> While the V-Star shock makes the bike sit much lower - which I like - it also allows the rear tire to hit the fender whenever I hit a pothole or speed bump - which I don't like.

    So... LOTS TO DO in the next 3 days! I want to get Frank back up to par by Wednesday night because Thursday I want to leave for the mountains for the holiday weekend. It will be my last chance for vacation until late September or October. And by then it's holiday season so I won't be able to go anywhere that's not a family event.
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  7. #296
    Senior Member Fred's Avatar
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    Bonding KYDEX to itself:
    Short answer...Cryoacetates i.e. SuperGlue
    Long answer...From the web:
    Tech Brief Material KYDEX - TB-103


    Bonding Kydex® Sheet
    Due to its excellent chemical resistance, KYDEX® Sheet can be more difficult to cement than other plastics. Herein we discuss how to cement KYDEX® Sheet to itself. Strong bonds can be obtained for most applications using the methods shown below. KYDEX® Sheet can also be joined to itself or to other materials using mechanical fasteners in place of adhesives.

    Bonding KYDEX® Sheet to itself, or other plastics

    Solvent Cementing:
    When bonding KYDEX® Sheet to itself, excellent joints and adhesion can be obtained using solvents in one of the following ways:

    (QKShooter Note: Directly Below Is The Strongest Glue Type Joint ~ it dissolve fuses the material to itself.)
    The best joints can be obtained using a viscous solvent cement consisting of about 10% KYDEX® Sheet shavings dissolved in a 50/50 mixture of tetrahydrofuran (THF) and methylethylketone (MEK). The KYDEX® Sheet shavings should be dissolved in the straight THF first, before adding the appropriate amount of MEK. Both of these solvents are available from lab supply companies such as Fisher Scientific (Web: http://www.fishersci.com/) Ashland Chemicals (Web: http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/), or other chemical distributors.

    Without the KYDEX® Sheet shavings, a relatively fast-acting capillary adhesive can be made by using only the 50/50 THF and MEK mixture. THF works well at 100%,but it tends to flash off too quickly resulting in a poor joint. The addition of MEK slows down the evaporation rate and affords greater time to work with the joint.

    Adhesives:

    In addition to chemical solvents, good bonds (both KYDEX® Sheet to it self and KYDEX® Sheet to other materials) can be obtained from various commercially available adhesives. Some examples are:

    Cyanoacrylate adhesives (e.g. “Super Glue”), such as Henkel’s S1000 Power Series (contact Henkel in the US at 800-934-9401 or on the Web at http://www.henkel.com/), yield very high joint strength for bonding KYDEX® Sheet to itself or to other materials. They are especially suitable for smaller areas of application where a very fast cure is desired.

    THF based adhesives by IPS work extremely well for KYDEX® Sheet to KYDEX® Sheet applications. Any of the following IPS Weld-On adhesives can be used: #4052, #4007, and #1007. For more information on these products, please contact IPS in the US at (800) 421-2677, or on the web at IPS Corporation. Tangit manufactured by Henkel, and HAKU 2091 manufactured by Chemische Werke Kluthe GmbH. Chemische Werke Kluthe GmbH (Web at Home - Kluthe) are other acceptable products. These adhesives also work well for KYDEX® Sheet to PVC and KYDEX® Sheet to ABS applications.

    Urethane based adhesives are available in easy-to-use two-part cartridge dispensers and result in good bonds. One such example is Ciba’s Uralane 5774 adhesive. Ciba can be reached in the US by calling (818) 247-6210, in Europe by calling 44.1223.832.121 or on the web at Ciba Geigy ? Healthy Diet and Nutrition

    Acrylic based adhesives such as Devcon’s ‘Plastic Welder ‘ or ‘Plastic Welder II’ can be used to form very strong bonds with KYDEX® Sheet. Both of the ‘Welder’ products are 2-part adhesives, which are available in cartridges. The Welders produce a strong bond, which cures in about 15 minutes; the adhesive is white in color. There is a ‘Flex Welder’, which produces a somewhat flexible bond which cures in roughly a half an hour. Flex Welder is yellow in color although it does not give as good a bond as the Plastic Welder and Plastic Welder II. You may order the ‘Welder’ products from Devcon in the US by calling (508) 777-1100, in Europe by calling 44.1.933.675.299 or on the web at http://www.devcon.com

    Adhesive Engineering & Supply offers “adhesive 310B” in black which is comparable to Plastic Welder. They can be reached in the US by calling (800) 888-4583, or on the web at www.stick-it.com

    Most hardware stores carry an adhesive for PVC pipe. This type of adhesive usually works well with KYDEX® Sheet.

    EDIT: I have used the DEVCON Plastic Welders with excellent results, good adhesion and flexibility
    Last edited by Fred; 05-21-2017 at 07:10 PM.
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  8. #297
    Senior Member LuvNot's Avatar
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    I'm TIRED. And FRUSTRATED. And I hurt my back.

    Good news: Charlotte's forks came off super easy! It was more difficult to get her levered up on a crate and to figure out how to wedge the front end up safely so the front wheel would dangle just a little, than to remove the forks. I happened to have an old metal crate to use as a stand, a cement block to put under the kickstand, and had cut a 2"x6" to length with a V notched in the end so I could wedge the front up enough to get the wheel off the ground. So with 3 points of contact the bike was secure enough - the the forks came out just as nice as could be!
    20170522_173156_resized.jpg 20170522_173218_resized.jpg

    Then I tried to install them onto Frank.

    Bad news: I hurt myself trying to get the bent forks out of Frank's triple tree, and now can't align the damned thing again to slide the second fork into place.
    20170522_200451_resized.jpg 20170522_200508_resized.jpg 20170522_200446_resized.jpg

    The left side went in okay. It was a little difficult starting it, but it slid up and into the top easy enough once it was started. The right side, however, just will not align. The picture looks like the fork is just dropped, but it's actually touching the bottom of the tree and what you see is an 1/8th inch gap showing the misalignment.

    What am I missing, guys? There's got to be something obvious that I'm not doing right because this shouldn't be that difficult. Every single video I've watched shows both forks sliding effortlessly into place - or at least with a minimum of twisting back and forth. Some folks show the tree already tight, others show the top loose, "to allow alignment". I've got mine loose because I know it needs to be aligned, but now that I have one fork in place, I can't seem to move the top into place to allow the second fork to slide into place - I just can't seem to close that gap.

    Tired and frustrated is a bad combination for me. I start to make mistakes. So I had to stop and come inside to cool off - both physically and emotionally - before I broke something else.

    For you guys who've done this before... how did You do it? Any advice about technique will be GREATLY appreciated!
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  9. #298
    Junior Member jacmmaxwell's Avatar
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    Hello , new to TW but not working on bikes.

    The upper triple should only be held in place by the center steering stem nut, you have two options when they loose alignment. First is loosen the nut and turn it by hand , Second ( what I tend to do ) turn the steering to the lock in which it needs to move ( if left side needs to move forward , turn to the right ) , then persuade the triples into alignment with a softface mallet , I use a dead blow style.

    Worth a note this misalignment may have also been why you thought you had everything lined up but once you rode it down the street it was not. So being a woods racer in my teens and still a fast single track rider ( KTM 250exc 2 stroke is my primary steed ) I have tweaked a lot of forks over the years, that has lead me to a system that works pretty well it getting things lined up.

    Install the forks in the triples and torque JUST the Lower clamp bolts, leave the top pinch bolts loose a couple turns, next loosen the steering stem nut about one turn or two ( just enough it can move with moderate force ), same goes for front axle loosen about 1 turn.... the idea is that the forks can be held in place in relation to the uppers but everything else can be moved a bit. Next step is to roll or ride it around SLOWLY , and dog the front brakes a few times to compress the front forks ( don't get crazy cause we are only using the lower pinch bolts to hold it all in place ). In most cases this is all you need to do and things will line up, if not it is very easy to "nudge" the front into place by pushing it against a tree , car tire, even have a helper hold it between their knees... Ride it down the block ( again gently ) if straight tighten everything back up, if not perfect then repeat the "nudge" .

    Often when it seems like the forks can't be aligned it's because the triples moved.
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  10. #299
    Super Moderator littletommy's Avatar
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    Nice write up, thanks for taking the time to help!!



    Quote Originally Posted by jacmmaxwell View Post
    Hello , new to TW but not working on bikes.

    The upper triple should only be held in place by the center steering stem nut, you have two options when they loose alignment. First is loosen the nut and turn it by hand , Second ( what I tend to do ) turn the steering to the lock in which it needs to move ( if left side needs to move forward , turn to the right ) , then persuade the triples into alignment with a softface mallet , I use a dead blow style.

    Worth a note this misalignment may have also been why you thought you had everything lined up but once you rode it down the street it was not. So being a woods racer in my teens and still a fast single track rider ( KTM 250exc 2 stroke is my primary steed ) I have tweaked a lot of forks over the years, that has lead me to a system that works pretty well it getting things lined up.

    Install the forks in the triples and torque JUST the Lower clamp bolts, leave the top pinch bolts loose a couple turns, next loosen the steering stem nut about one turn or two ( just enough it can move with moderate force ), same goes for front axle loosen about 1 turn.... the idea is that the forks can be held in place in relation to the uppers but everything else can be moved a bit. Next step is to roll or ride it around SLOWLY , and dog the front brakes a few times to compress the front forks ( don't get crazy cause we are only using the lower pinch bolts to hold it all in place ). In most cases this is all you need to do and things will line up, if not it is very easy to "nudge" the front into place by pushing it against a tree , car tire, even have a helper hold it between their knees... Ride it down the block ( again gently ) if straight tighten everything back up, if not perfect then repeat the "nudge" .

    Often when it seems like the forks can't be aligned it's because the triples moved.
    Ken likes this.
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