cdi baseline info - wires, waveforms, timings, substitution - Page 3
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Thread: cdi baseline info - wires, waveforms, timings, substitution

  1. #21
    Junior Member PushingBoulders's Avatar
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    Slowmod, I've been riding light trails and some mud on the fixed timing CDI. I was even able to coax the front tire to lift a bit. I think that 15 degrees might strike a happy medium in the TWs timing needs. Sure, it's not ideal, but this super cheap CDI has allowed me to get out and enjoy the TW. For a guy on a budget, I would much rather enjoy the TW with a little less grunt than to lay it in mothballs waiting to afford a 250 dollar CDI. I would be interested to hear from you how it feels compared to a factory CDI (I come to the table with no point of comparison). I'm looking forward to seeing how you proceed on the Subaru dizzy project.
    Ken likes this.

  2. #22
    Senior Member slowmod's Avatar
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    hey PB that all sounds good. my reference for comparison to a stock tw is 3 years ago, and it had slowly come to have a leaking carb flange, disintegrated air filter, and all the baffling in the muffler also disintegrated. and the cdi was probably intermittenting.

    figuring out if the retarded timing causes any engine issues at sustained road speeds is my main question with the fixed timing. would effect fuel efficiency/emissions as well.

    -

    tw_cdi_new_wires_web.JPG

    so i got my new fixed timing cdi dressed in today. had to make connectors ( female spade terminals, a bit of cutting and squeezing) as i didn't have a pigtail harness. cdi fires at 10deg. bike runs pretty good (it runs, so that is a huge improvement in itself). didn't get to wind it out, just puttering around on wet grass after not riding much for a couple years. more testing definately required...

    the blue wire hooked into the red is the feed to the handlebar kill switch. the kill and ac power pins are bonded in the cdi, so this way saved me making a cdi connector.

    -

    tw_camdizzy1_web.JPG

    here is the mock up for the camdizzy shaft. i have to get a m10x1.25 die to extend the threading on the bolt so it can grab the full threading in the camshaft. the bolt head will get cut off, and the shaft seal you see there will sit into the plate which replaces the side cover. (it would actually sit in closer twords the engine). $13 for the seal and $5 for bolt and nut.

    even without centrifical advance, being able to turn a 10deg fixed cdi into a 15-20 fixed by moving the pickup/trigger would be helpful.

    the buggymart cdi's advance from 20 to 50deg. running one of those with the pickup delayed ~10deg, would give an effective range of 10-40. given the lower rpm of the tw's, and also the fact that the camdizzy would present as half the rpm's to the cdi (normally pickups at crank), one would might end up pretty damn close to the stock tw 10-30 range.

    -
    Last edited by slowmod; 08-10-2014 at 11:02 PM.

  3. #23
    Senior Member slowmod's Avatar
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    i put about 4 or 5 miles on the bike today. that was fun! works fine picking thru little trails, lots of power, but is definately holding back on the pavement, 50mph was about all it wanted to do.

    i will "revisit my carburation" now that the bike is actually running, but the flatness feels like, well, 20deg retarded timing. remembering way back to when the bike was working well, i would say a 25-30 power drop at higher rpms, which is pretty significant.

    i don't think i will put many sustained road miles on the bike with this fixed timing -

    Why does retarded timing = hot engine? - SmokStak

    Re: Why does retarded timing = hot engine?

    When the engine fires normally, the fire burns completely (or nearly so) within the combustion chamber. The heat is kept within the combustion chamber, and as the pressure drops during the power stroke, the superheated gasses cool. As the power stroke occurs, the cylinder absorbs the heat, and when the exhaust valve opens, the burned cool mixture is blown out of the cylinder and combustion chamber.

    When timing is retarded, peak pressure and heat is delayed, and is not confined to the combustion chamber. Delayed ignition causes the peak heat and pressure to occur in the cylinder body itself. The flame actually burns the lubricating oil off the cylinder walls, causing more friction. As the combusting mixture is not under high compression, it is less dense, again causing further delays in the burn. When the exhaust valve opens, extremely hot, still burning gasses are blown out the exhaust port. past the valve.

    <snip>

    -
    Ken likes this.

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  5. #24
    Senior Member slowmod's Avatar
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    so i've put about 15 hours riding in on the bike, alot of it 45-50mph on secondary highways.
    one has to whip it to maintain those speeds, basically wot most of the time, crouch if there is a headwind, etc. still, 15 hours on the bike is better than 15 hours not on the bike. i touched 60 once downhill with a tailwind.

    the fixed timing is definately holding it back, ie a passenger would render the whole thing unable to keep up with traffic, etc. but the good news is that the engine seems happy enough, seems cool enough, header no hotter than normal etc. i've pulled the spark plug a couple times and had a look in the combustion camber and at the valves and it all looks fine, no discolouration or scorchy looking areas.

    tw timingcurve.png

    given the way that the stock tw engine gets wacked with a good dose of ignition retard at higher rpms as a rev limiter, i'd say that running them at fixed 10-15deg timing will do them no harm.

    in other words, cheapy aftermarket cdi's (can) be viable options to keep rolling.

    -

  6. #25
    Senior Member slowmod's Avatar
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    6-PIN CDI BOX. 2/4 Pin Split

    this is the cdi i'm using. they don't sell directly but there are canadian and u.s. distribution company part #'s at the link.
    it cost me $30 canadian, ordered/ picked up at my local bike shop.

    -

  7. #26
    Senior Member ssgtrillium's Avatar
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    Royal Distributing in Ontario has them for $28.99. or the high performance model #080112 for $54.99 like the one in the video
    Last edited by ssgtrillium; 10-12-2014 at 11:19 AM. Reason: add info

  8. #27
    Senior Member supachip1's Avatar
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    hi slowmod, i finally got round to reading this..still not sure about everything tho..mind you its 7am, maybe a coffee or 2 n it will seem easier.
    i have a similar cdi that has been chopped in….i think with an axe… i have re-routed all the wiring to tidy it up, colour coded the wires a little better than before…i was sure i had written what went to where as i disconnected everything but i now have a spare wire, the brown from the engine casing, i looked at your wiring and notice the same wire not connected…is this brown only needed for the OME CDI? what does it do, i saw it in the first page of this post but still la little unsure about everything i have read.

    thanks

    supachip

  9. #28
    Senior Member slowmod's Avatar
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    supachip - most of the aftermarket cdi's i've seen only use one power wire (and ground). the stock tw cdi uses two and ground. so you are correct the brown wire does not get used. make sure it can't ark to ground.

    ski pro 3 - there is a thread around here somewhere on tw owners striping off and repairing their cdi's - loose solder joints mainly. it is quite a process!

    i cut my cdi open after getting it to work by freezing it. i did not use a dissolver and the potting compound was still cold (smacks forhead) so i peeled off several components and copper from the board that stuck to the compound. if i had taken the time, even just heated the unit before cutting and peeling it was probably fixable. not after i worked on it, tho.

    there were several bad solder joints. so yeah, definately worth checking into if one has a bad cdi.

    -

  10. #29
    Senior Member slowmod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssgtrillium View Post
    Royal Distributing in Ontario has them for $28.99. or the high performance model #080112 for $54.99 like the one in the video
    hey ssgtrillium

    i had a look at the video when i was at some wifi, but it was a noisy/busy environment so i couldn't hear the audio.
    i did notice there appeared to be a timing curve printed on the cdi.

    could you post a picture of that curve, or describe it?

    when i originally talked to outside distributing they said the fixed timing cdi i got was the only one that would fit the tw. soo hard to get basic information.

    thanks eh.

    -

  11. #30
    Senior Member ssgtrillium's Avatar
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    The video is not mine but when I have time I will go to royal dist. and see if I can get a picture for you.

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