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Thread: Start up *Help in Sacramento :(

  1. #21
    Senior Member jtstdub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tweaker View Post
    I'd concentrate on the weak spark. BTW kudos for stepping in to help. It is strange that this happened after changing the tires probably coincidence. When I lived in an apartment once I helped a neighbor with a broken leg. He had a Triumph 650 (70's) he wanted to sell and asked me if I would ride it down to the self car wash and wash it for him before he sold it so I did. Long story short after I rode it back, the next day it wouldn't start. He was blaming me for ruining his bike. What did I do to it etc. It turns out after much bruha one of the spark plugs was bad. The insulator had cracked from the washing but I had been able to ride it back before it stopped working. Anyway looking for a great outcome on the trouble shooting.
    Oh yeah I have been through the blame scenario too many times to explain...

    I have a great response to that phenomenon.........

    " How many times have you seen a light bulb go bad, it was on when you turned it off and now it is dead, why?"


    Most electronic failures occur during the initial power on.... Sometimes just heating the board, component up a bit will get the circuit working again... and sometimes just the opposite...cooling it.

    Yep, weak spark is the cause of the issue... Ain't air in the tire...or the smell of new rubber...hahahaaaa

    Jim
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    Hidden Content 2003 Tw200, 2014 BWS 150, 1969 VW Beetle Baja, 1972 Super Beetle and a 1987 Suzuki Samurai.

  2. #22
    Member Ldw777frog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtstdub View Post
    Update:

    Well My son and i linked up with Ldw and we went over to see what the situation is..

    Ldw and friend are quite knowledgeable... and they had the basics pretty much down before we arrived. We just retraced their steps and did some deeper verification of the symptoms.

    We spent about an hour going through some basics... But we were un-sucessful getting her engine to fire.

    Engine cranks very good and strong but no start or even a burp.

    Spark plug out there is no spark, spare plug no spark.

    In line spark tester showed a weak spark, not enough to jump the gap of he plug.

    Timing light would not trigger a flash.

    We reseated the coil grounds.

    Measured coil resistances.

    Swapped the coil with a new but not proven coil.

    Swapped ECU Ignition module, used and unknown if it is good or not , no change, weak spark

    Un plugged, cleaned some corrosion on some contacts of all interface connectors. No change, weak spark.

    She may have a fuel related problem but at this point we need enough spark to get a pop, using starter fluid and there is no fire!

    Bummer that we could not find a quick down dirty solution to the problem...

    My son is going to pick up Ldw's Dub and take it to his home shop in the next couple of days..

    We can then scope and measure voltages and hopefully get a quick resolution to this issue.

    It is strange that she had the tires replace, no other service and when she got the bike home it would not start...

    We found no indication of anything amiss from the shop...

    Jim

    Thank you guys for your help. We were hoping it was going to be something easy. But it's also nice to know that we aren't crazy... this bike is just a head scratcher at the moment. Thanks again!
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  3. #23
    Member Ldw777frog's Avatar
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    Also got me to thinking more about the Stator and I found this document online. Maybe that's the problem?

    Stator Testing Yamaha

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  5. #24
    Senior Member jtstdub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ldw777frog View Post
    Also got me to thinking more about the Stator and I found this document online. Maybe that's the problem?

    Stator Testing Yamaha

    Yep, that would be the direction we would be heading....
    Nice link... Will book mark!

    Thanks,

    Jim
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    Hidden Content 2003 Tw200, 2014 BWS 150, 1969 VW Beetle Baja, 1972 Super Beetle and a 1987 Suzuki Samurai.

  6. #25
    Senior Member fishguy's Avatar
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    I may have missed it but have you checked the fuse? The bike will crank over but not run if it is blown. If you did change it, go back and clean the clips that hold the fuse. Also, the fuse can get rusted and corroded inside, where ya can't see it. I would replace it too. My fuse and holders on my '95 TW needed maintenance a few years ago. The fuse looked good but was blown inside where I could not see and the fuse holders were very dirty.

  7. #26
    Senior Member jtstdub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fishguy View Post
    I may have missed it but have you checked the fuse? The bike will crank over but not run if it is blown. If you did change it, go back and clean the clips that hold the fuse. Also, the fuse can get rusted and corroded inside, where ya can't see it. I would replace it too. My fuse and holders on my '95 TW needed maintenance a few years ago. The fuse looked good but was blown inside where I could not see and the fuse holders were very dirty.
    Agree, the engine would crank. If the fuse was blown there would be no spark.... No lights... so the fuse is good.

    Also the head light is quite bright while cranking... Guess I look for obvious items first....Any voltage drop at the fuse would show with a dim head light etc....

    We were moving pretty fast eliminating the obvious things so we will take a look at the fuse and holder's voltage...

    Thanks,

    Jim
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    Hidden Content 2003 Tw200, 2014 BWS 150, 1969 VW Beetle Baja, 1972 Super Beetle and a 1987 Suzuki Samurai.

  8. #27
    Senior Member jtstdub's Avatar
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    Little update for all.. Son and I were going to take a stab at resolving the issue but his shop had a couple of projects he needed to complete before he had room. Talking with Laura she talked with Roseville Yamaha and they said they were about 2 weeks out. So Laura took the Dub to Capitol Yam and they declined the repair.. Not totally clear on all the BS that they told her we talked and I told her she could bring the bike to my Home/shop or take the bike to Roseville. She called Roseville and they said just bring it in and they would get to it soon. So she took it to Roseville.

    Fingers crossed for her.. I dislike "Easter Egging" a problem, I like to analyze, scope, measure resistances, voltages etc and come to a true resolution. In all my 50+ years of working playing life, of mechanical and electronic mfg and service I always found that swapping many times leads to more problems than the original one..

    Jim
    Ldw777frog and Tweaker like this.
    Hidden Content 2003 Tw200, 2014 BWS 150, 1969 VW Beetle Baja, 1972 Super Beetle and a 1987 Suzuki Samurai.

  9. #28
    Super Moderator Purple's Avatar
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    Well done for trying ....
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  10. #29
    Member Ldw777frog's Avatar
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    Hi all-
    So yeah, I took it to Capitol Yamaha (the reason being that they charge a $92 diagnostic fee no matter how long it takes them to find the problem). Well once I got there, the service guy tried to start the bike (which didn't work) and said in his expert opinion it was probably a) the handle switch b) pulser coil or c) the ignition coil assembly. He looked those parts up in a Yamaha parts catalog and since 2/3 of the parts are discontinued, he would not look at my bike b/c he couldn't get parts for it.
    I had called Roseville Yamaha and inquired about an appointment, but they said that was 2 weeks out. I called them again after we left Capitol Yamaha and Roseville said, "oh that's a quick fix. Bring it down" (little do they know lol)
    So we took it to Roseville- I just called them, they said they'll be able to look at it this afternoon (hopefully). Roseville charges by the hour to figure out what the problem is (which scares me.. it's going to be a lot more than $92 just for them to figure out the problem, then add the part cost on top of that.)
    But hopefully I'll have an answer soon and that this is a fluke and my bike runs problem free from here on out.
    I'll let you all know what I hear.
    Also, lesson learned: when you pick up your bike from *any* sort of service start it right then and there before you load it and take it home. If we had done that, none of this would've happened b/c Roseville Yamaha wouldn't have sent me home with a non-running bike 3 weeks ago.
    jtstdub and elime like this.

  11. #30
    Member Ldw777frog's Avatar
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    ***Also thank you to everyone who has chimed in and/or helped trying to figure out this problem. I wish it was easily diagnosable.. but at least I've learned a lot. Can't wait to get the bike running. I'm a newbie and really want to get some practice riding time in before a big trip this summer. Thanks again! ***

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