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Thread: New Battery Tender lithium is dead.

  1. #21
    Senior Member Tweaker's Avatar
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    So two of negatives with lithium type batteries is overcharging and overdischarging. If your charger put out over 15v it could trigger a protection circuit on the battery if it had one and or just damage it. A good overcharge/ overvoltage protection circuit would allow you to charge the battery once the high voltage is removed. Usually over charge damage is longer term and it reduces capacity of the battery so it will still work. In your case you continued to try and start your bike when the battery was low which is the likely cause of if not working now. The technology is not bad just different and behavior and use of the tech needs to change and adapt to the tech. It would be nice if there were fool proof safe guards but that adds expense. Some of these batteries come with overdischarge protection and if your battery had it it would be ok now. When you put it on a charger it would work again.

    Here is one suggestion for people who have lithium batteries in their bikes when the battery gets low from trying to start too much don't use it until it goes dead. There's one problem with this and it is that lithium batteries will work real good up until they go dead. It's an advantage and a disadvantage. They have a very flat voltage curve from full to empty. So how do you tell when they are getting low? Basically to tell efficiently you would need an amp hr meter or a measurement of how much current goes in from the stator/rectifier and goes out for starting, lights etc. So a more seat of the pants way is how long or how many times can I crank the bike before it kills the battery ? The smaller lithiums are @ 7ahrs and larger ones are @ 12ahrs? The stock LA battery for the TW is 7 ahrs. 3.35v per cell x4= 13.4 v nominal voltage for the lithium battery times say 7 amps= 94 watts of starting power.(Edit 94 watts of starting power is incorrect lets just say it's not very much) It's not really that much. Both types of batteries will put out high starting amps for short periods of time equal to the wattage of the batteries . So does 7ahr of Lead acid battery equal 7ahr of lithium starting power? Not really because Lead acid batteries lose voltage as they discharge and lithium voltage stays flat as they discharge. Put another way if you can crank your bike 10 times with a LA battery and then the voltage is so low it won't crank your bike over that is its cranking capacity. A LA battery will recover a little voltage if you let it set 10-15 minutes and your bike may crank again to start so say 11 cranks total. A lithium battery will crank your bike maybe 15 times strongly for the same amps and then if you go too far its gone very little warning. One way to tell is the voltage does drop but the drop off is so steep that it happens quickly. You don't want to go lower than 11v. The above example of number of cranks is a WAG. Some real life testing would be in order then you would know say I can crank my bike 15 times before this battery goes dead and then don't over discharge it.

    Here is a good link for info. If you know how to read the discharge curve you can see how flat the voltage stays and then suddenly drops off when empty.

    How to charge Lithium Iron Phosphate lithium ion battery packs including packs with high current and High Capacity.
    Last edited by Tweaker; 05-10-2017 at 12:29 AM.
    centralwarider and Donzo like this.
    Twin 2014 TW200's made side by side on the assembly line, Moose rear racks, Protaper Bars one with risers, DG oval pipes. rejetted carbs, 130 main jets, 2 -.020 shims on the needles and @ 2 1/2 turns on the pilot screw, #34 pilot jets, Aserbis hand guards, Shinko 241 front tires, weld on foot pegs, 14-55t sprockets, Ricochet skid plates and 90 degree fuel filters.

  2. #22
    Senior Member centralwarider's Avatar
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    SLA AGM GEL Maintenance Free Motorcycle Scooter Battery Replaces YTX7L-BS CTX7L-BS ETX7L-BS GTX7L-BS PTX7L-BS UTX7L-BS STX7L-BS Battery

    Link to the battery I replaced the lithium with. Only $20 bucks. Does require some shimming to fit great
    Would have liked to repost the original endorsement for this battery that was made by fishguy but I couldn't figure out how to do it so here it is again. Battery seems to work great and starts the bike right up but because nothing is ever easy.... None of my turn signals seem to work. The rears blink like a champ when activated but I am getting nothing front or rear as far as running lights. Any thoughts?
    Last edited by centralwarider; 05-11-2017 at 11:22 PM.
    Tweaker likes this.
    2007 TW200, Cycleracks, Jimbo shield, Tinman Tim racks and tool tube mount, Shinko 244 in 5.10, Protaper ATV mid handlebars, Tusk D-flex hand guards, e-bay steel pegs

  3. #23
    Senior Member jtstdub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by centralwarider View Post
    SLA AGM GEL Maintenance Free Motorcycle Scooter Battery Replaces YTX7L-BS CTX7L-BS ETX7L-BS GTX7L-BS PTX7L-BS UTX7L-BS STX7L-BS Battery

    Link to the battery I replaced the lithium with. Only $20 bucks. Does require some shimming to fit great
    Would have liked to repost the original endorsement for this battery that was made by fishguy but I couldn't figure out how to do it so here it is again. Battery seems to work great and starts the bike right up but because nothing is ever easy.... None of my turn signals seem to work. The rears blink like a champ when activated but I am getting nothing front or rear as far as running lights. Any thoughts?
    Wow that is cheap.. I can not believe that the mfg can even make them for that cost...Hay it's free shipping too! .. Make sure you mark the install date for us so when this battery fails you will know and can post it here. I purchased an AGM for about $45.00 It is now 2 years old and still appears to be performing at spec.

    Jim
    Tweaker and centralwarider like this.
    Hidden Content 2003 Tw200, 2014 BWS 150, 1969 VW Beetle Baja, 1972 Super Beetle and a 1987 Suzuki Samurai.

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  5. #24
    Senior Member centralwarider's Avatar
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    So to wrap this up. I hadn't mentioned to everyone that while I was swapping out the dead lithium for the $20 AGM I had inadvertently arced my screwdriver to the frame. Real quick. No big deal. Finished hooking up and the bike fired right up and ran great. It took me awhile to notice the turn signals were out. Anyhow. After figuring it was something inexplicable for a few days, I just tore open a couple of my signals to take a look. Surely the lights would not be burnt out. Here they are.
    IMG_3121.JPG IMG_3122.JPG

    I replaced five bulbs in total. All four turn signals and the high beam indicator in the dash. Don't touch the hot screwdriver to the frame. I also cleaned up my bullet connections for the lighting system and rewired them correctly this time. Now my rear indicators only light when the switch is activated and they blink at the correct rate. I used di-electric grease on the connectors and drew a bead of silicone around the lens covers before pushing them back together. It was dusty in there when I broke them open and they went back together about 80% as well as they fit originally. I am gonna order some more of these lights if I can find them. They are mini incandescents and are truly plug and play. i like them even more now than when I originally installed them.
    IMG_3123.jpgIMG_3125.jpg

    IMG_3127.JPG
    Tweaker likes this.
    2007 TW200, Cycleracks, Jimbo shield, Tinman Tim racks and tool tube mount, Shinko 244 in 5.10, Protaper ATV mid handlebars, Tusk D-flex hand guards, e-bay steel pegs

  6. #25
    Senior Member jtstdub's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by centralwarider View Post
    So to wrap this up. I hadn't mentioned to everyone that while I was swapping out the dead lithium for the $20 AGM I had inadvertently arced my screwdriver to the frame. Real quick. No big deal. Finished hooking up and the bike fired right up and ran great. It took me awhile to notice the turn signals were out. Anyhow. After figuring it was something inexplicable for a few days, I just tore open a couple of my signals to take a look. Surely the lights would not be burnt out. Here they are.
    IMG_3121.JPG IMG_3122.JPG

    I replaced five bulbs in total. All four turn signals and the high beam indicator in the dash. Don't touch the hot screwdriver to the frame. I also cleaned up my bullet connections for the lighting system and rewired them correctly this time. Now my rear indicators only light when the switch is activated and they blink at the correct rate. I used di-electric grease on the connectors and drew a bead of silicone around the lens covers before pushing them back together. It was dusty in there when I broke them open and they went back together about 80% as well as they fit originally. I am gonna order some more of these lights if I can find them. They are mini incandescents and are truly plug and play. i like them even more now than when I originally installed them.
    IMG_3123.jpgIMG_3125.jpg

    IMG_3127.JPG
    That is very strange... Blows all the lights?
    Only thing that causes lights to blow is over voltage... guess I do not understand how a screwdriver shorting the battery to ground/ negative post would cause the lights to pop...

    Strange.

    Jim
    Hidden Content 2003 Tw200, 2014 BWS 150, 1969 VW Beetle Baja, 1972 Super Beetle and a 1987 Suzuki Samurai.

  7. #26
    Senior Member Tweaker's Avatar
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    Centralrider were you able to get warrenty on the battery? And I hope you didn't get rid of it. I want it and will pay shipping if you are going to toss it.
    Twin 2014 TW200's made side by side on the assembly line, Moose rear racks, Protaper Bars one with risers, DG oval pipes. rejetted carbs, 130 main jets, 2 -.020 shims on the needles and @ 2 1/2 turns on the pilot screw, #34 pilot jets, Aserbis hand guards, Shinko 241 front tires, weld on foot pegs, 14-55t sprockets, Ricochet skid plates and 90 degree fuel filters.

  8. #27
    Senior Member centralwarider's Avatar
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    Amazon gave me a full refund. Unfortunately, they like to get the products back and so I sent it in. I don't have any other explanation for the blown lights. Unless it could have been something to do with killing the lithium and then bump staring it home. Idk All fixed up and ready to go though so I'm excited. I"m gonna ride tomorrow. Gonna ride a desert portion of the WA Backcountry discovery route. It snowed about 15 miles from my house today so the conditions on this section should be super optimal
    Tweaker likes this.
    2007 TW200, Cycleracks, Jimbo shield, Tinman Tim racks and tool tube mount, Shinko 244 in 5.10, Protaper ATV mid handlebars, Tusk D-flex hand guards, e-bay steel pegs

  9. #28
    Senior Member centralwarider's Avatar
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    Thanks to everyone for their feedback and comments. That is exactly why this forum is so great and useful
    2007 TW200, Cycleracks, Jimbo shield, Tinman Tim racks and tool tube mount, Shinko 244 in 5.10, Protaper ATV mid handlebars, Tusk D-flex hand guards, e-bay steel pegs

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