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Best way to change gearing

30K views 46 replies 16 participants last post by  RodneyReed 
#1 ·
I just purchased an '08 with 2900 miles on it. The chain has been abused, and is worn out. I'll be changing both sprokets. I'd like to be able to ride at 60 mph on the highway without over reving the engine. Would it be better to go with a larger counter sprocket, or a smaller rear. And can anyone tell me the ideal number on teeth on each? I need to get them ordered as soon as possible. The bike had been in storage since early '09. Battery was dry and dead, carb fairly clean, but the slow jet was blocked with varnish. It cleaned up well, and now runs like a big Swiss Watch :) Any help with the sprockets will be much appreciated. BTW, I traded my 2010 Tdub for a Harley Sportster...
 
#3 ·
The only way to comfortably ride on the highway at 60+ unfortunately is to use a different bike, even if you lower the engine speed enough to a reasonable point you'll be at a serious lack of power and probably won't even have enough power to turn 5th gear at 60 unless the land is flat and there's no headwind.



But if you love your TW and you insist, it depends on where you live and how much you want to slow the engine down. First of all I would recommend going from 14 in the front to 15, and if you want to drop the engine speed more from there drop the rear.



With stock 14/50 you're running roughly 7600 at 60, and yeah it sounds like it's gonna blow up



If you drop it to 15/50, you're running 7200 at 60. Fair drop, but not much.



If you can afford to drop it lower, the next step would be 15/47. This lets you run 60 at 6700, which is 900 lower than the stock bike. I have this ratio, and personally 6700 is way too fast for me to run without worrying..



Next drop would be 15/45, which runs 60 @ 6400



Or you can drop to what owtcast posted, 15/42 which runs 60 @ 6000.





I highly don't you want to go lower than 15/42, heck I don't even know if you want to go that low. I have 14/44 equipped which is equal to 15/47, and I'll tell you my bike's 5th gear SUCKS. It has no power at any speed, and while it WILL climb from 45 mph to 65 it takes a long time. Like maybe 1 mph per second if you're lucky..and that's on a flat with no headwind! With head winds I've had trouble even holding 60 mph in 5th, it only holds 65 on a flat on a good day.



If you will be riding mostly flat roads I'd recommend 15/47 or maybe even 15/45, I just don't know about 15/42...you can try if you want as sprockets are cheap & easy to do. If you have lots of hills to climb up maybe try 15/50, it won't drop the engine speed much and 60 will still be pretty high but you can't afford to lose any more power.



But like I said it all depends on what feels too high for you. some people run 14/55 and run the damn thing at 60 still which is over 8000, I can't stand to go anywhere near that cause it makes me feel like it's gonna blow up in no time and leave me stranded. I like my bike best with 14/44 running 45 mph @ 5000, sounds perfectly relaxed and happy. If you can stand to run it at 7000 though, I recommend 15/50. If you are like me, you'll wanna get 15/45 or lower.
 
#4 ·
Everything he said is correct. I am fortunate
that I live right on the coast at sea level and it's flat as hell here. So the TW isn't starving for air and makes the most of it's meager power. And the only hills around here are overpasses on highways. Note: I'd gladly trade that all for some topography which makes riding so much more interesting and enjoyable.
 
#6 ·
i'm at 15/50 and feel comforatable at 55mph, 60 does feel like your pushing it a little too hard, but 60 doesn't scare me to the point where i think it's gonna blow up, i still go 60. at my weight (205ish) i dont know how well 15/44 would push me. if my oring chain and sprockets wear out before the rest of the bike does i'm gonna go with somthing more like 15/48 i think.
 
#7 ·
I've got 15/50 on my 91 and would ride 60 all day long. i've even hit 75 for 10-15 min rides on the freeway with no problems (even had a little power to spare ran at about 7600rpm). this little engine will handle those rpms as long as its well taken care of. on bigger hills i do have to downshift but its no different than the car driving next to me. I'm in Utah so I figure (depending on what part of oregon you're in) your topo is about the same. In the end its up to you I'ld recommend starting at 15-50 and if you dont like that change the rear sprocket accordingly. Your happiness with the TW is well worth a few 10-20 dollar sprockets!
 
#8 ·
I've run 14/54 to 15/44 and my favorite for most purposes is 15/50. Tdub just doesn't perform well pulling gears taller than that. I run 70-75mph often. I'll run 15/54 on a dualsport ride in the Ozarks, Smokies, or desert, but I'll switch to 14/54 up in the Rockies. Makes a big difference around Buena Vista and Leadville at 9,000 to 12,000 feet. I've taken Tdub up Pikes Peak, over 14,000 feet, when altitude drops your horsepower 50%. You might not can stand to buzz a TW engine all day at 8000rpm, but the bike doesn't care. The engine is tuned so mildly you can't hurt it by using it. The carb is so small it is like running half throttle on other bikes when held wide open. I've done a SS1000 in 19 hours, and didn't kill Tdub. I've flogged her across hundreds of miles of desert highway 4-5000ft altitude at 112*F, and didn't kill Tdub. Tdub is happiest turning about 7000rpm. Tdub has 45,000+ miles, and no internal engine work other than valve and cam chain adjustments. I think good quantities of clean, quality oil are much more important to your TW than engine rpm. Spin 'er up, let 'er rip. That's the way TWs are.
 
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#9 ·
But like I said it all depends on what feels too high for you. some people run 14/55 and run the damn thing at 60 still which is over 8000, I can't stand to go anywhere near that cause it makes me feel like it's gonna blow up in no time and leave me stranded. I like my bike best with 14/44 running 45 mph @ 5000, sounds perfectly relaxed and happy. If you can stand to run it at 7000 though, I recommend 15/50. If you are like me, you'll wanna get 15/45 or lower.







I just now bought the 14/44 on ebay based on your input, thanks for the info
 
#10 ·
Hi, this is my first post I really like all the input from everybody and I am much more informed on the sprocket issue.



I would like to change my gearing on my TW to lower the rpm's on the highway but I have to make a choice between a 14/48 or a 14/45.( I have a deal with a supplier and they only make does rear sprockets).



I don't know if a 48 will make any noticeable difference and I'm worried a 45 will kill to much of the torque.



I ride both trails and highway but I will use it a lot to go to work which is 45 miles of highway and would like the rev's to come down a bit to extend engine life.



Right know the bike is stock with the 14/50. I weigh 155 lbs and it feels like first gear is almost useless for my style of riding and pushing over 50 mph feels hard on the engine ( but I am reassured buy qwerty's post ).



I dooooooo like the occasional wheelie in 2nd gear and without being to hard on the clutch.



I would really like any insight and thanks in advance.



The site is great and I Love my Tdub.
 
#13 ·
Thanks Rodney for the ear plug trick, I had heard of it before and for sure i will give it a try.




I have no doubt the tdub has a tough engine. So would you agree that if I don't go over 60 mph with the stock sprockets, the engine can take it? 7600rpm for a monocylinder is hard on engine life? Just my tough.



Qwerty's 45000+ miles reassured me.



Anyway, the (Buy both and sale the one I don't like) idea is probably the best way to go.



Thanks again.
 
#14 ·
Cruiser,



My opinion is the engine can take it.



In the past I had never ridden the TW over 50mph because like you, I thought the rpm's were pretty high and something was gonna shoot out the side of the engine. However, last year I took the TW on a pavement ride of about 100 miles. The first half I stuck around 55mph and everything was fine. On the return half, I cranked it up a notch to 60-65mph with stock gearing and the TW ran great. Yes, I had to get over the high rpm sound but all was well once I got use to it. I am not afraid anymore to ride the TW at that speed anymore. And I got the guts to do it based on TW members experiences written in this forum.



Though I have not, and probably won't change from stock gearing, I think there are the plus's and minus's for each different gearing change. It's good to get a glimpse of what others experience's are, and mention it here in the forum.



Rodney's idea of getting a couple different sprockets is a good and fairly cheap approach some of us can afford, to experiment with.



Good luck

 
#16 ·
Thank's for the feed back Rodney.




All so thank you admiral for your view on the subject.



I will definitely give the forum some feed back on the different sprocket set up.



Just have to wait for summer.
 
#17 ·
If you're still looking for what gearing to get, I highly recommend 14/44 (almost exactly the same as 15/47) gearing for 60 mph freeway cruising. This gearing combo will put the engine at about 7 thousand RPM at 100 kph (62 mph), which is about the same as 55 mph with the stock gearing. Any lower and there's not much point in changing the gearing, any taller and the bike will start to feel really weak. Even with 14/44, fifth gear can struggle sometimes up a long hill or into a head wind. If you're really hard core, you could probably get away with 14/42. But I definitely wouldn't suggest gearing any taller than that. And IMO there isn't really much benefit of 14/42 over 14/44. Good luck (if you haven't already gone and bought the new sprockets...).
 
#18 ·
Thanks for thre input KJ. I will try different settings and hopefully find the right one for me.
 
#19 ·
I put on the 14/47 combo on my wife's and my bike..... Hers always seemed too buzzy above 55.. Mine felt buzzy above 60.. Now hers feels much better up to 60. Mine is now comfy until 65.. I've noticed a loss in power up hills, but I like the way 1st gear is now.. After all if my wife and I need more power we just take the big road bikes out. (o; OMM.
 
#20 ·
New to TW's and bikes in general, but...the fastest way to tear up an engine is loading it too hard (too tall of gearing) vs. operating near the high end of it's designed operating range. My "rule" is if you don't have any/much throttle response at whatever condition you are operating in, you're geared too high and putting way too much heat in the engine. Heat kills a lot faster than rpm "X".



You can run gear calcs all day long, but then find you can't pull the high gear. You're not developing the horsepower at 7000 that you are at 9000.



Just my novice opinion, but if you wanna cruise comfy at 70+, the TW isn't the right bike.
 
#21 ·
+1 Gear for your cruising speed to be the rpm of peak torque or slightly below. If the engine won't pull that speed at part throttle 95% of the time, lower your expectations.
 
#22 ·
QWERTY, what's the theory on slightly below? On boats we like to cruise (economy) at just above peak torque. Every "feature" (wave, etc.) is trying to scrub off speed/rpm. Still, we prop so that the engine can reach redline and maybe a little more with normal payload. Note, we only have 1 gear, so downshifting isn't an option.
 
#23 ·
Good question. A motorcycle rider can downshift on a big wave.



For a boat a good rule of thumb is to do as you say: Prop for redline at normal load and live with whatever cruise speed you get. For a land vehicle, just the opposite: Cruise speed is determined by the posted speed limits. Gain a bit of efficiency gearing slightly above torque peak at the speed on the signs (or +5, if that's how you roll), and live with the top end: either the engine won't pull redline or redline is where yo let off. Now, to really blow minds, I had a V8 S10 pickup that I had to gear to cruise 75mph in 5th, and use 6th for top end, strong tailwinds, and the back sides of big waves. Top end was about 600rpm under redline on flat pavement with no wind. Enough power is never having to use it all.
 
#26 ·
I'm with QWERTY. Look for a suitable place to have him pass you, then signal him to do so. If you have to pull over or off the road, that beats being a hood ornament.



FWIW, higher top end and more aggressive start at the light are two different ends of the same stick.
 
#28 ·
Never signal someone to pass you. In most places, doing so absolves the moron of legal responsibility should the moron crash while passing, even if the moron crashes into you. Also, never pull over to the right side of the lane to allow someone to pass. That's only asking a moron to pass you with inches to spare and likely cut you off. Best place to ride when a moron is tailgating is to imagine the entire traffic lane divided into 9 sub-lanes, with sub-lane 1 being the left edge and sub-lane 2 being the right edge, and riding with your wheels in sub-lanes 3 or 4, and that includes around curves. If you do the outside-inside-outside thing with a moron on your tail, you can expect the moron to pass on a right-hand curve in the middle of the curve, or on a left-hand curve either as you set up to enter the curve or as you exit the curve. In any case, a moron who passes in a curve will rarely keep all 4 wheels out of your lane while passing because, well, there is a reason people are morons. If you intend to pull over and let the moron by, stay in sub-lane 3 or 4, signal WELL in advance of the turn-off, touch the brakes barely enough to illuminate the brake light, or better yet, flash the brake light by taping just one brake lever without engaging the brakes, and SLOWLY roll off the throttle, using engine compression, or, more precisely, a gradual reduction of engine power, to slow the bike. Turn off from sub-lane 3 or 4, because if you move over (as most idiots who write motorcycle rider handbooks reccommend), the moron will try to share the lane with you. If you are turning off where there is a turn lane, signal, flash the brake light, and begin decelerating in advance, then as the lane widens from one lane to two, check that the moron isn't swinging out onto the shoulder on the right to pass (morons do such things because, well, they are morons), ride parallel to the white line, moving from sub-lane 3 or 4 of the go-straight lane to sub-lane 3 or 4 of the turn-right lane.



If riding in the left lane, and someone is tailgating you, you are the moron--move your ass over. If turning left, instead of riding in sub-lanes 3 or 4, you should ride in sub-lanes 6 or 7 to force someone passing over into the next lane. Be aware that the left lane is a dangerous place for a TW, because morons can and will use the bit of paved shoulder beyond the yellow line to pass on the left, often dropping a tire off the pavement, resulting in a panicky steering wheel crank to the right, and planting a fender right on your kneecap, so watch your 6 when in the left lane and don't be a moron--stay out of the morons' way.
 
#27 ·
I've found 1st gear too low for stoplight drag racing, even with stock sprockets (74mph redline in 5th). F'rinstance, you are at a light waiting to cross the typical 2-lanes-each-way-with-a-left-turn-lane road. Light turns green. 1st-shift-2nd-shift-3rd-exit the intersection. I much preferred the action of 1st gear with 15/47 sprockets (85mph redline in 5th): 1st-shift-2nd-exit the intersection-shift-3rd. Unfortunately, the wide 3/4 and 4/5 gear ratios become a problem when trying to keep up with the cars on the expressway--a TW will easily keep up with 70mph traffic when a row of vehicles creates a drafting situation, but getting there is a problem when the rpm drops so much when shifting that the engine falls off the powerband.



I've been on flyover ramps where 4th gear would tool up the bridge at 65mph, shift to 5th, and the bike slowed to 55 at wide open throttle. With 14/47 or 15/50 sprockets, Tdub would maintain 65mph up the bridge. Fact is, a true road speed of about 70mph is all a stock TW engine is going to run on flat pavement with no wind, and that's with the rider tucked in. Too high a sprocket ratio will actually slow the bike down in many circumstances.



On the other hand, a high sprocket ratio can raise top speed significantly in certain circumstances, mainly with some combination of tailwind, downhill, and drafting. Tdub has touched 84mph twice non the interstate when conditions were perfect, and both times fully loaded for a long roadtrip with 15/47 sprockets. I expect someone living in mountains with long highway uphills would be in 4th, anyway, and a tall sprocket ratio would come in handy for the long downhills, at least if said someone had the kahoonas to try to run 80+ on a TW. Believe me, most riders chicken out when the handling feels like ice underneath at speed. Maybe they are just smarter than I am.




By the way, a 15/45 sprocket allows 88mph@9500rpm. 15/42 allows 95mph@9500rpm. Think about it before running such sprockets.
 
#31 ·
15/50 is my preferred sprocket set so far. Being relatively light, 15/49 to 15/48 might be better for you, while 15/51 might be better for me since I'm a bit heavier. 1st will roll out a little better. Among this limited range of ratios, there won't be much difference in roll-on from 55mph or top end because of the TW's wide, flat powerband.



For better roll-on from 55, after new sprockets and a properly jetted carb, I'd look at a bit more radical cam, maybe the least radical cam that requires stiffer valve springs would be a good choice. That's just an educated guess based on the reports of people who have provided ride reports after installing new cams. I expect such a cam costs a bit of torque off-idle, but should build through the mid-range with a higher peak torque and horsepower at slightly higher rpms. My experience with Tdub is that she is willing to rev a good bit beyond where she runs out of breath. For instance, she will run 9500 rpm at 84mph with 15/47 sprockets without a problem, down hill with a tailwind and/or drafting another vehicle. However, 70-75mph is tops tucked in on flat ground with no wind, turning 8000-8500rpm. I'm thinking a bit of cam would let a TW use that extra 1000rpm, though from 55, a downshift would be needed to stick the powerband.
 
#32 ·
Thanks, Rodney. I believe you're right, and QWERTY also. If I wanted to ride the bike like I was riding a cruiser and I wanted the bike to perform like a cruiser, well then I guess I should have bought a cruiser, huh?
I've never ridden motocross, but I've watched enough of it on TV to know what you described. It sort of reminds me of the movie, "Days of Thunder", when Tom Cruise is about to climb into the race car and they ask him if he has ever driven one before. He says, "No, but I've seen it on ESPN. You'd be amazed at the coverage and the things you can pick up". lol Well, I'm about 595 miles away from my 600 mile break-in service. I've decided I'll have the 15T sprocket put on then, and whatever I ride away with after that is what I ride away with, love it or hate it, I'll make the adjustment. You guys have been terrific. Thanks, Jeff
 
#33 ·
QWERTY, if I ever need technical, educated, and obviously seasoned advice on the performance of anything, you will be the one I seek out!
You have an impressive knowledge of the TW200; more about the ship than those who designed her (Where's that line from, movie buffs?) Anyway, I'm feeling a little discouraged after reading your last post. When I take the bike in for its break-in service and ask that they change the front sprocket, if the service manager says they can't do that without re-jetting carb, installing a different cam, or stiffer valve springs or the bike will be ruined, I think I'll tell him to forget I even mentioned it and just have the oil changed. lol. This is, after all only a stepping stone for me. I think when I trade up, I'll want the bike to be as close to stock as it is now, for better trade-in value. I didn't think adding one more tooth up front was that big a deal. I'm not necessarily looking for roll-on acceleration from 55 to 75, I just want to get to 60 (eventually) and not have the engine sound like it will burst at the seams if I hold it there for five or ten miles. I'm sure you're thinking, wow, this guy doesn't know a thing about the TW200, and you're right. I guess I've been riding cruisers for so long that the sound of a high-reving engine scares me a little and is something I'll have to get used to. I love your posts and have learned more about the TW200 in the past few days than I ever would have learned on my own. Thanks, Jeff
 
#34 ·
If the service tech says other mods are necessary inform him the rest of the world gets a 45T wheel sprocket.



That said, why bother with a service tech? Download the shop manual and do it yourself. You'll save enough on the 600 mile service to pay for an o-ring chain, which is tied with a new main jet for the greatest need of a North American TW200.



I've been doing some calcs on gear ratios. I want to keep the stock combined primary/trans/final drive ratio in first for dualsporting and the equivalent to a 15/47 with the stock tranmission in 5th for the highway. That means I need a total reduction of 33.571 in 1st and 8.535 in 5th. The XT trans with 15/49 sprockets is really close, with 33.503 in 1st and 8.595 in 5th. That's a +21rpm difference at 21.5mph in 1st, and a +66rpm at 84mph difference in 5th/6th. In 1st at 2.5mph, stock trans will turn 1105rpm, the XT trans 1102rpm. Shouldn't notce the difference.



In practice, maximum rpm shift points are as follows:



15/47 TW...14/50 TW.....XT.....TT-R

24.5............21.5........21.5..........24.3

38.8............34.0........33.3..........37.6

52.7............46.2........46.6..........49.6

66.8............58.6........59.2..........63.1

...................................71.9..........76.6



Note how closely the XT trans with 15/49 sprockets so closely replicates the TW trans with 14/50 sprockets for the first 4 gears. The biggest beef I had with 15/47 sprockets was the wide gap dropping off the cam between 4th and 5th with the TW trans. With the XT trans, 5th would be just a tad lower than 5th on the TW with 14/40 sprockets, and nicely split the gap. 5th with the XT trans and 15/49 sprockets would pretty much yield about the same top end performance as stock, and 6th would be the "overdrive" it seems most everyone is looking for. PERFECT! At least for a dualsport that sees the interstate from time to time. Put a stroker crank and a mild cam in front of the XT trans with 15/49 sprockets and this would be dualsport heaven.



The XT trans with a 15/55 sprocket set would provide a 1st equivalent to the TW trans with 14/56 sprockets for those who are looking for tractor performance, while retaining the highway ability of the TW trans with 14/50 sprockets. Those of you with the ATV tires can run the XT trans with 14/70 sprockets to mach the TW trans with 13/71 sprockets, yet still wind it out to 55mph on the highway.



The speeds shown under the TT-R heading are the maximum shift points for the TT-R trans with 15/46 sprockets. Notice how the 1st is almost identical to the 1st of the TW trans with 15/47 sprockets, allowing better rollout from a dead stop. Notice how the gaps between the first 4 gears close a little with each shift, compared to the TW trans with 15/47 sprockets. The 4-5 gap closes a lot, completely eliminating the dreaded bog from the excessive rpm gap, with slightly better top end potential in 5th than the TW trans with 14/50 sprockets. Redline in 6th would be right at 90mph, which would be possible on a lightweight cafe racer down hill with a tailwind. A big bore kit with pod air filter, fairly radical cam, maybe some port work, and a free-flowing exhaust under the frame would take advantage of the top end potential. Such a cafe bike would be a hoot on roads like Deals Gap.



The TT-R trans with 15/49 sprockets would provide the easy cruising of the TW trans with 15/47 sprockets and tighten up the gaps in all the gears, with first about equal to the TW trans popular 14/47 and 15/50 sprocket sets. This would be the ideal set-up for a commuter or cruiser.



The TT-R trans with 15/52 sprockets would provide the same 1st gear as the TW trans with 14/50 sprockets and slightly taller top end as the TW trans with 15/50 sprockets. This would be ideal for a light diplacement tourer. Put a stroker, mild cam, and pod air filter ahead of this option and you'd have a perfect dependable-as-a-rock bike for slow-down-and-smell-the-roadkill sightseeing coast-to-coast. Run a premium synthetic oil and ride 3000 miles a week for a year with nothing but weekly oil changes and chain lube, twice a month valve adjustments, a full service once a month, 2 sets of brakes, 6 0-ring chain and sprocket sets, and a couple dozen tires. Then slap in new clutch plates and springs, rings, grind the valves, replace the frame and wheel bushings and bearings, and do another 150,000 miles.



I so need to hit the lottery.
 
#35 ·
Hey guys! I have been a member on here for a while, but I have contributed very little. I'm mostly just trying to soak up as much info as possible from all you seasoned riders here. This forum is awesome!



I have been a TW owner since 96. It was my first motorcycle and I still have that '87 to this day! Best bike out there (as im sure alot of us can agree
) Anyways. Back in November I was sitting at a light and as I pulled through the light the front sprocket lost a tooth the chain jammed and I had to drag that bike through a rush hour traffic intersection. It sucked.



So I get to reading on here and I thought ya know why not change both front and rear while Im at it. I installed them and was really excited to get back on and then as I started riding the idle was fine, first gear was fine then when i up-shift to second the bike quickly boggs down as if running out of gas and it all but stalls out. I went through every fuel/carb/air check possible the carb was running great. The weather changed really fast was so in the garage it went for the winter.



In my novice approach to changing out the sprockets did I forget some sort of adjustment for the new ratio? Could this new gearing be responsible for this? I'll post the new ratio tomorrow, I forget what it was.
 
#37 ·
Sprocket and chain should have no effect on the engine running other than a change of rpm at a specific road speed in a specific gear. If the engine is quitting I expect you have pinched a wire under the case cover or somehow damaged some other component in the change. Did you do any other work besides the sprocket and chain at the same time?
 
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