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  1. #1
    Senior Member thumper's Avatar
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    Whats in your wallet....I mean gas tank?

    Which is better and why?

    I've used MMO and was very surprized at how well it worked in keeping the engine clean.

    I'm thinking about trying it in the crankcase oil too.

    However last night I used Sea Foam when my bike was sputtering so bad I didn't think I'd make it home.

    This morning the bike feels like a brand new bike!

    Can they both be used at the same time? Or is one better than the other?

    Let the comments begin.

  2. #2
    Senior Member jbfla's Avatar
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    I can't say which is better because I haven't used MMO. Some mechanics I know use MMO during the break-in of rebuilt small aircraft engines (Lycoming and Continental).



    As for Seafoam, I've been using it since the late 1960's (eeek! I can't be that old!). I started using it to decarbon 2 cycle outboard engines. It worked.



    Then when I got into motorcycles, I started using Seafoam to clean up carburetors of bikes that had been sitting unused for months or years. Anything was worth a try to prevent having to disassemble a 4 carb setup. Again, it worked.



    There are a multitude of carb cleaning products but I haven't found one that works better. I have also come across some naysayers as to the effectiveness of Seafoam, but not many.



    Until I find something better, I'll stick with the Seafoam when needed.



    jb
    2005 TW 200
    2006 Triumph Bonneville
    2007 DR 650
    2008 SV 650
    2008 H-D Softail Deluxe

  3. #3
    Senior Member phelonius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbfla View Post
    I can't say which is better because I haven't used MMO. Some mechanics I know use MMO during the break-in of rebuilt small aircraft engines (Lycoming and Continental).



    As for Seafoam, I've been using it since the late 1960's (eeek! I can't be that old!). I started using it to decarbon 2 cycle outboard engines. It worked.



    Then when I got into motorcycles, I started using Seafoam to clean up carburetors of bikes that had been sitting unused for months or years. Anything was worth a try to prevent having to disassemble a 4 carb setup. Again, it worked.



    There are a multitude of carb cleaning products but I haven't found one that works better. I have also come across some naysayers as to the effectiveness of Seafoam, but not many.



    Until I find something better, I'll stick with the Seafoam when needed.



    jb




    I have been using marvel misery oil for many years. Half an ounce to about three gallons of gas now and then keeps a carb working well and assists as an upper cylinder lubricant.

    In the shop I keep a hypodermic syringe with a 22gauge needle to apply a very small drop where needed on small machine parts without over oiling into a mess. It can be injected down cable jackets for throttle and clutch and braking cables. It works very well as a cutting oil and has great penetrating qualities. It smells nice but don't cook with it.

    I think the nice smell is oil of wintergreen, this could account for its penetrating ability too. As a general purpose shop lubricant, I mix MO with motor oil about half and half.

    It is altogether a very handy stuff to have in your garage.



    sea foam is for carbs or water in the gas.



    Phelonius
    Phelonius

  4. #4
    Senior Member srs713's Avatar
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    Even though they are two very different formulas, they do much of the same things.



    I use them both in all my engines; car, motorcycle, lawn mower, weed-whacker. I believe MMO is a bit better at lubricating, while Sea Foam is a bit better at cleaning varnish out. They both stabilize fuel.



    They don't interfere with each other, and work well to keep everything lubed & clean. Used according to instructions they have no affect on performance (other than making the engine run smooth & efficient). I never have any trouble starting my mower or weed-whacker in the spring after months of sitting. And when I get into any of the engines, they don't show anywhere near the wear they would normally have for their age/hours.



    Having started driving/riding/mowing my own vehicles in 1978, I have three decades of experience with these products. I'd recommend using both.



    Very important note: If you get a brand new engine, don't use MMO until after the break in period. It chemically bonds with the metal and changes the wear characteristics. You want the engine to wear normally until everything is seated well. I got this info from the old farmers here in the heartland.

    Stephen S.

    '07 TW200:

    15/50 sprockets, O-ring chain, D2Moto foot pegs

    tweaked carb (127.5 jet, 0.019 needle shim, idle screw @2.25),

    Rubbermaid "Action Packer" on homemade brackets

  5. #5
    Senior Member jbfla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by srs713 View Post
    ...

    Very important note: If you get a brand new engine, don't use MMO until after the break in period. It chemically bonds with the metal and changes the wear characteristics. You want the engine to wear normally until everything is seated well. I got this info from the old farmers here in the heartland.
    SRS,



    [s]I'm not disagreeing with you, just wondering why those old timer mechanics that rebuild small aircraft engines use MMO during the break-in, and not after.[/s]



    Nevermind...... I checked on an aviation engineering forum, and found MMO is not FAA approved for use in aircraft engines.



    Also, the use of MMO is a controversial topic on those forums. Some swear by it, and others don't.



    Kind of like a "which is the best oil" thread... not likely to convince anyone either way.



    jb
    2005 TW 200
    2006 Triumph Bonneville
    2007 DR 650
    2008 SV 650
    2008 H-D Softail Deluxe

  6. #6
    Senior Member srs713's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbfla View Post
    SRS,



    [s]I'm not disagreeing with you, just wondering why those old timer mechanics that rebuild small aircraft engines use MMO during the break-in, and not after.[/s]



    Nevermind...... I checked on an aviation engineering forum, and found MMO is not FAA approved for use in aircraft engines.



    Also, the use of MMO is a controversial topic on those forums. Some swear by it, and others don't.



    Kind of like a "which is the best oil" thread... not likely to convince anyone either way.



    jb


    Here's my 2¢:



    An aircraft engine would be (hopefully) built to more exacting standards, and high tolerances. You would want to keep as much of that intact as possible during break-in.



    Most automotive, and farm equipment engines (at least back in the day) are engineered with break-in wear allowed for. It lets the factory crank them out faster.



    The thing with MMO is that it actually soaks into the metal and changes it permanently. Out of curiosity I have cut metal that had MMO used on it and seen for myself how far in the reddish tint goes beneath the surface. It is actually an engine lubricating "treatment".



    The debate between use or not during break-in is a question of how much you want the parts to wear into each other before "freezing" or slowing the wear. MMO will change the wear characteristics enough to make a big difference. The decision will depend on how the engine is put together.



    I've seen the results myself. I bought an '80 XS850 Yamaha new in '79. Drove it 400 miles the first week, and then went from Kansas to Michigan in 24 hours (80+mph), having a shop outside Chicago do the first service. Then started using MMO at the next oil change. And years later at 130,000 miles it looked almost new inside when I had to pull it apart. MMO lubricates very well.



    And as with driving techniques for break-in, there are going to be people who swear by different methods. Such as, I believe in breaking in an engine as you intend to drive it. Others will argue for RPM changes, and no loading, and on, and on.



    Thinking it over... some modern engines, made with higher tolerances might do better with MMO during break-in. So I guess it will be an engine by engine decision each time I buy something new.

    Stephen S.

    '07 TW200:

    15/50 sprockets, O-ring chain, D2Moto foot pegs

    tweaked carb (127.5 jet, 0.019 needle shim, idle screw @2.25),

    Rubbermaid "Action Packer" on homemade brackets

  7. #7
    Senior Member jbfla's Avatar
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    SRS,



    Thanks. I appreciate your thoughts and point of view on MMO.



    jb
    2005 TW 200
    2006 Triumph Bonneville
    2007 DR 650
    2008 SV 650
    2008 H-D Softail Deluxe

  8. #8
    Senior Member thumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by srs713 View Post
    Here's my 2¢:



    An aircraft engine would be (hopefully) built to more exacting standards, and high tolerances. You would want to keep as much of that intact as possible during break-in.



    Most automotive, and farm equipment engines (at least back in the day) are engineered with break-in wear allowed for. It lets the factory crank them out faster.



    The thing with MMO is that it actually soaks into the metal and changes it permanently. Out of curiosity I have cut metal that had MMO used on it and seen for myself how far in the reddish tint goes beneath the surface. It is actually an engine lubricating "treatment".



    The debate between use or not during break-in is a question of how much you want the parts to wear into each other before "freezing" or slowing the wear. MMO will change the wear characteristics enough to make a big difference. The decision will depend on how the engine is put together.



    I've seen the results myself. I bought an '80 XS850 Yamaha new in '79. Drove it 400 miles the first week, and then went from Kansas to Michigan in 24 hours (80+mph), having a shop outside Chicago do the first service. Then started using MMO at the next oil change. And years later at 130,000 miles it looked almost new inside when I had to pull it apart. MMO lubricates very well.



    And as with driving techniques for break-in, there are going to be people who swear by different methods. Such as, I believe in breaking in an engine as you intend to drive it. Others will argue for RPM changes, and no loading, and on, and on.



    Thinking it over... some modern engines, made with higher tolerances might do better with MMO during break-in. So I guess it will be an engine by engine decision each time I buy something new.



    SRS713, thank you for sharing your results with us. A question for you, Did you use the MMO in the gas tank or in the crankcase or both on your xs850? I'm almost ready to do another oil change and am considering trying it in the crankcase this time. I'm just worried about the poor quality of the basegaskets and prone to leakage. any suggestions?

    Thanks for sharking.

  9. #9
    Senior Member srs713's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by igofar View Post
    SRS713, thank you for sharing your results with us. A question for you, Did you use the MMO in the gas tank or in the crankcase or both on your xs850? I'm almost ready to do another oil change and am considering trying it in the crankcase this time. I'm just worried about the poor quality of the basegaskets and prone to leakage. any suggestions?

    Thanks for sharking.


    Sorry to take so long replying, I was focusing on a job interview out of state.



    I use MMO in both the fuel and the oil, following the directions on the container. I also put some in the drive shaft gear boxes of the 850, but that doesn't concern a TW owner.



    I don't think it will change the condition of the base gasket. If it's going to leak, MMO won't stop it, if it's not gonna leak, MMO won't make it leak.



    75% of my vehicles have been bought used, I've never had any of those engines start leaking because of adding MMO.

    Stephen S.

    '07 TW200:

    15/50 sprockets, O-ring chain, D2Moto foot pegs

    tweaked carb (127.5 jet, 0.019 needle shim, idle screw @2.25),

    Rubbermaid "Action Packer" on homemade brackets

  10. #10
    Senior Member thumper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by srs713 View Post
    Sorry to take so long replying, I was focusing on a job interview out of state.



    I use MMO in both the fuel and the oil, following the directions on the container. I also put some in the drive shaft gear boxes of the 850, but that doesn't concern a TW owner.



    I don't think it will change the condition of the base gasket. If it's going to leak, MMO won't stop it, if it's not gonna leak, MMO won't make it leak.



    75% of my vehicles have been bought used, I've never had any of those engines start leaking because of adding MMO.





    Thanks for taking the time to reply. Hope you got the job!

    I'm going to try it this next oil change. In the engine, I'll add my 1qt of oil, then top it off with 6 oz of MMO

    as you suggested.

    How much MMO (oz's) per gallon of fuel do you use. The seafoam, I use 1oz per gallon. Do I do the same?

    Thanks again.

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